User talk:Toughpigs
Credits Hey, I'm not sure whether to bring this up now, since it's related, or wait until the current production crew discussion is finished (I feel like we're getting somewhere, though, and mostly waiting for George or someone to respond). But a related issue is the credits lists on the whole, which when overdone, create a raft of red-links for odd crew members, and thus lead to bad, stubby pages. I just noticed The Sesame Street Special, with credits contributed by a now banned user, as an extreme example (and just trimmed it). In the past, I've thought it might seem to anal to bother with, but now that a related issue is under discussion, it seems worth while to discuss just what our scope should be on credit transcription. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 23:57, 14 January 2007 (UTC) :I think that our credits lists should match what we decide about pages. I think we should allow credit listings for the "creative" jobs and not for the "technical" ones, except in cases where we have something notable to say about the technical folks. Ideally, every credit listed should have a blue link, to a worthwhile page. -- Danny (talk) 00:29, 15 January 2007 (UTC) ::That makes sense, but there's a few exceptions, like Time Piece and The Cube, where I think it's worthwhile to have a record of the full credits, even if we'll never make pages for a lot of those folks (though on Time Piece, I only redlinked those I have info to make articles for; I just hadn't quite decided whether to add the drummers and sound editors, or work it into a mass "Sound Design in Time Piece" page, especially if I can find some quotes). And also with the animated/live action recurring Sesame segments, I think it's worthwhile to include basic credits, as much as is known, so we have the names if not necessarily red-linking them (Fay Ray's an example). But then Don't Eat the Pictures and the full Nelvana credits on Dog City just look excessive to me. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 01:15, 15 January 2007 (UTC) :::See, I feel the same way about Time Piece or The Cube. I'm interested in the creative people, but not the technical people. I don't think we need it, although I'm willing to be overruled on it. -- Danny (talk) 01:20, 15 January 2007 (UTC) ::::Bah, machine ate my comments. Anyway, did you look at those two? Especially Time Piece, which is such a short block, but with both, the films aren't widely available and we're the only ones providing a record of them, in contrast to a Sesame special on DVD. And with Time Piece, I could probably take out the "special thanks," which we don't ordinarily include anyway (it just amuses me that it mentioned Seagram's for the liquor bottles, the restaurant they filmed in, and a clock shop), but apart from make-up lady Caroll Conroy, there's something at least mildly interesting to note about each of the others. Sound effects man Frank C. Andriello was a harmonica virtuoso and member of an all harmonica quartet (!) in the 1940s and later did tons of commercial jingles. Sound FX recorder Bill Schwartau engineered records for Duke Ellington and Peter, Paul, and Mary. Music recorder Rudy Van Gelder is a legend in the jazz field, and the percussionists? George Devens was a vibroaphonist who doubled on tambourine/congo drum and played in-house for CBS and later with Neil Diamond, and Ed Shaunessy drummed on The Tonight Show. Not necessarily the most gripping stuff individually, and even together probably mostly of interest to audio geeks, but enough to my mind to be used somewhere and to argue against just obliterating their names. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 01:41, 15 January 2007 (UTC) :::::Fair enough, I'm overruled. Far be it from me to kick a vibroaphonist when he's down. -- Danny (talk) 01:42, 15 January 2007 (UTC) ::::::Heh. I just think it's interesting because a lot of folks, me included, probably originally had the perception that Time Piece was just Jim and a bunch of Muppet people and friends, and while that's partially true, the cast and crew as identified so far is mostly a range of early 60s NY "bohemian" types (jazz sound engineers, portrait artist, a stripper, avant garde film-maker, and vibraphone/harmonica virtuosos). I'll probably try to work that into a paragraph on the page later. It thus says something about Jim's work at the time. You couldn't do the same with full roster of Nelvana's unit managers, clean-up artists, and post-recording supervisors. As for The Cube, I've found nothing on most of those Canucks, save the composer (Walter Sear) and the guy who designed the cube itself and thus probably deserves a page, so while I like having the full list, I can see your point there, especially with so many production assistants and video people credited. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 01:51, 15 January 2007 (UTC) :::::::Yeah, I think that's a fantastic bit of research/analysis, and it'll be a terrific addition to the Time Piece page. But that's a paragraph (or more), instead of a bland credits list. -- Danny (talk) 02:02, 15 January 2007 (UTC) Wonder Pig I can't believe you oppose the excellent Wonder Pig article based only on the fact that you don't like the hardly noticable gray halo around her. It's a better production photo of her and it shows off the costume better. If you can find something better that still shows off her logo, I might be willing to favor it. — Scott (talk) 01:58, 14 January 2007 (UTC) Season One Noggin Edits In your research for the various season one epsiodes of Sesame Street, I was wondering if you found any info on any sketches that Noggin cut from episodes 8, 43, 54, or 83. If there are any missing sketches mentioned, it might be worth pointing out that Noggin edited them on that page, even if we don't knwo when they appear in the episodes. --Minor muppetz 02:48, 13 January 2007 (UTC) Bah humbug Just got back to Syracuse yesterday to find my DVD player and PC (latter including all my school papers, most not backed up, and all my Wiki-use files) had been stolen. Going to try to find a replacement, but if I'm not around much for a little while, that's why. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 15:11, 12 January 2007 (UTC) :What? Holy crap, that's terrible! I'm so sorry to hear that. I hope you're okay... -- Danny (talk) 17:39, 12 January 2007 (UTC) ::Well, I bought a replacement, for a little over 1,100 (which isn't bad considering, but still a huge bite), and was able to get temporary connection through vacation dial-up (which expires on Monday, so I'll need to get a new disc sent to re-activate my DSL). And it has no WinDVD, so screengrabbing will be impossible unless I buy it for 59.99. And for some odd reason I can't get the software for my less-than-a-year-old printer/scanner to re-install (it gets halfway through and then gives an error message), so no printing academic papers or scanning Sesame books til I get it fixed. *and* I also can't seem to find the disc to the device I was using to transfer TV stuff to the computer for screengrabbing (discs just seem to vanish into the black hole which is my apartment). And beyond Wiki indulgences, I'm desperately searching for the one hard copy I had of one of my three dossier papers in progress (no, I wasn't able to back anything from the last year and a half up; dumb, I know, but I wasn't expecting theft, just crashes, and so sent copies only of works in progress and so on, plus I had a hard time burning *anything* on the machine- I actually miss the days of floppies). Ah, well. On the plus side, the criminals overlooked the e-bay resale value of Rowlf's Rhapsodies with the Muppets, The Frog Prince, etc., so at least my vast DVD/VHS archive is safe, even if I can't quite access it yet. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 03:40, 13 January 2007 (UTC) :::I'm really sorry, that sounds terrible. I know that you'll get everything back in order, but it's a real pain while you're doing that. -- Danny (talk) 03:49, 13 January 2007 (UTC) Sesame episodes Wow, we now have pages for about 1/8 of the full library of Sesame Street episodes. Nice job! — Scott (talk) 03:25, 12 January 2007 (UTC) :Yay, thanks. I'm gonna finish up with season 1 tonight. I wish I could actually find plot summaries, so these aren't just dull lists of inserts, but it's good to have the info that we have. I'll keep digging in the archives and see if I can find more. :P.S. Do I have OCD now? -- Danny (talk) 03:34, 12 January 2007 (UTC) ::You have the power of the wiki. — Scott (talk) 03:39, 12 January 2007 (UTC) :::At least I don't sign my e-mails with four tildes. -- Danny (talk) 03:40, 12 January 2007 (UTC) Current events I just added my two cents to the YouTube issue. --MuppetVJ 17:23, 11 January 2007 (UTC) :Yeah, I think that's a good point. Am I wrong about how quickly things go down off YouTube? I've seen a lot of clips taken down, but most of what I watch on YouTube is porn. -- Danny (talk) 18:50, 11 January 2007 (UTC) ::Porn, eh? Is this the Danny I know, or the Danny I don't know? :-S ::Anyway, I've had an active account since June and nothing's happened. --MuppetVJ 20:33, 11 January 2007 (UTC) Episode 0021 In the Number Song Series page, Episode 0021 is cited as the first appearance of the 10 segment, but in the episode 21 page, this skit is not listed. I know that Scarecroe added that information, but did your source not mention this, or did you just forget to list the skit? --Minor muppetz 03:44, 9 January 2007 (UTC) :I forgot! Thanks for catching that. I got confused on that one, and mixed up Jazz #10 and Song of Ten. I fixed that now. I'm glad you noticed! -- Danny (talk) 10:58, 9 January 2007 (UTC) Caption Quotes I'd been meaning to ask you about this for awhile, and Adthinsp's edits reminded me of it. They tend to be a problematic area. Sometimes they can be fun and really add to an article, especially for minor or one-shot characters, who generally have at most one memorable line if any. With others, there's the problem of the caption not actually matching where the image came from, and with folks (often anonymous) chopping and changing the quotes, fiddling with the phrasing (which isn't always easy to verify). Not a big eneough deal to demand a policy, but perhaps a general rule of thumb? If folks are messing with the quote, or it's clearly from another production (if still the same character) than the accompanying image, the best thing is to just yank it out? Oh, and by the by, belated happy birthday and congrats on the Tough Pig relaunch. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 01:43, 9 January 2007 (UTC)s :Thank you, and thank you. I've been noticing that some of the quotes are really out there. Some of them are great, some are not. My rule of thumb is that you should be able to imagine the character saying the quote in that moment. You and I might know where that Janice quote comes from, but for the average reader, it'll look completely out of place. I don't blame that person for thinking that it's vandalism. So I think it should be from the scene that the picture comes from, or at least something close. -- Danny (talk) 01:46, 9 January 2007 (UTC) Danny's talk archive *Muppet Wiki Talk Archives